31 1749 8 Oct: baptised daughter Hannah to John and Esther Hoy, St Botolph Without,
Nightingale Lane (not paupers)
(1749-1752 no Hoy listed as renter at either Nightingale, or Sunyard).
MF 0370 931. FHL SLC.
32 1750 May: death of John Hoy (in tiny letters)
33 1751 May: death of Hannah Hoy (in tiny letters)
1749 - 53 no rental or Tax Listing for John Hoy
36 1754 John Hoy residing at Sunyard. £2 rental
37 1755 John Hoy residing at Sunyard. £2 rental
37 1755 14 Sept: baptised son William to John Hoy and Esther. St Botolph Without
Aldgate, London, residing at Sunyard.
MF 0370 931. FHL SLC
38 1756: John Hoy Sunyard, now empty no rent entered.
Sources for much of the above - Films MS 9232/2, 1730-67 Burials (Guildhall Library,
London). The death of a John Hoy, May 1750 - both entries in very tiny printing,
follows the pattern, Month, followed by Day burial took place, indication of Relationship,
dau, wife, Location in parish. After the last full entry there are two columns headed
by the name of a churchwarden. Beneath each warden will be printed, quite a few names
for the month, but no day or other info specified.
The archivist suggested the significance is that these entries might be paupers who
could not pay the burial fees. Archivist also stated that the rough
transcripts included status poor/very poor. For Hannah Hoy the entry did not say
poor. There are no records for 1749-1752 so no check for John Hoy
possible then. Furthermore the churchwardens notes for needed period do not exist.
churchwarden reports under MS 9235/4 are primarily fiscal, and had no useful information.
Rental and Tak Listings are incomplete (missing years 1745/6, 1747/8, 1750/51, 1753/55,
1759/60, and for the documented years, the pertinent division is "2nd part lordship
part" which was sometimes missing. (1755).
Tax listings are more complete, wanting only 1747, 1753, 1757 and 1767. They gave
yearly rent, name or renter or owner, tax. If empty it is so stated and last occupant
Much later on, John Hoy (soldier) is mentioned, significantly, in the Melrose Heritors
Register: 4 March 1797: Meeting recommended to the Clerk that John Hoy be paid 6s
8d for room rent, but as John Hoy was a King's Pensioner no need for him to get anymore
money. He was also mentioned in Kirk Session Records from October 1790, then in July
1795, and in Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec 1796, and on 29 Jan and 19 Feb and 5 March 1797.
PH2 Kirk Session
comprise two books - one Payments to and from accounts, the other the Minutes authorising
John Hoy was paid 1s at a time, on the dates as above, through the Melrose Heritors
Record. 'No rule' for John Hoy to be paid as he was a King's Pensioner, but he WAS
paid 6s 8d on 4 March 1797, and paid 1s next day afterwards 5 March. There are then
no more entries for him in the Kirk Session or Melrose Heritors Records.
John Hoy died 18 October 1798 aged 80, at Melrose.
From the above detailed research in the UK carried out by Bill Boyles of Las Vegas
using a large number of sources, including a talk with the Army expert archivist
at the Scots Genealogist in Edinburgh Terrace, we can conclude that if John Hoy (soldier)
was the John Hoy born in 1718, son of John Hoy,
gardener in Gattonside, then Newris might be a house or location in Gattonside at
that time perhaps? Any thoughts on that possibility?
The Archivist thinks some soldiers fibbed about their age - otherwise perhaps it
was the clerk who just didn't hear the age right - only enlisted in 1739 so aged
21ish, and in army for 8 years invalided out aged 29: physical appearance could be
same for a soldier with convulsions aged 29 as for one aged 39 to look at? If he
is the John Hoy who married Esther Martine from Melrose with first known named child
born George 1744 (John Hoy aged 26), and another John Hoy born in 1746 in Melrose
(could there have been an unregistered John Hoy born before George in 1744 who had
died in infancy?). We firmly believe Esther Martine was the daughter of George Martine
so the name fits for a 2nd boy - George Martine was Treasurer at the Kirk in Melrose.
A long time resident of Kelso reports that Newris may be a mis-spelling for maris
as in “The Maris” the local name for a house/houses beyond Maxwellhough on the road
to Yetholm. Anyone with more information please contact us.
One problem lies with Hannah - not a name common in the Scottish Borders - but it
could have been George Martine's wife's name? We have no record of her name. She
could have been English - no record of marriage - all dates form a complete record
in Melrose for marriages then, and she is not there. There is further possible evidence
from the Melrose Kirk Session, in that it is the same John Hoy (born 1718) who aged
16 who was admonished for kicking over the Ministers Haystack in Melrose. The family
in Melrose could then have been happy to get him into the Army and away from the
Borders - for good?
So we believe, but cannot yet prove beyond doubt, that John Hoy (soldier b 1718)
was the father of William Hoy baptised on
14 September 1755 at St Botolph without Aldgate, London, from which my line is descended.
BUT HOW CAN WE BE SURE ENOUGH TO MAKE THE CLAIM?
Any information to Thomas Hoy clockmaker in Kelso 1800-1812 would be appreciated.
Comments please or specific requests for further Hoy Family information to Dr Charles
Hoy use contact us on index page.